Ted Audio Collective.

Collective. Design Matters will be back with new episodes.

In the meantime, we wanted to replay this interview from pre-Pandemic times from December of 2019.

This idea of being born in the wrong body to me just has such a tinge of shame to it.

Like it's just, it feels like such a shameful self-conception and I just couldn't ever

believe that about myself.

This is Design Matters with Debbie Milman.

For 15 years, Debbie Milman has been talking with designers and other creative people about what they do, how they got to be who they are and what they're thinking about and working on.

On this episode, a conversation with Thomas McB about masculinity from the point of view of a trans man.

And there are of course moments where I felt and still feel like I

catch myself in the mirror and I'm just like, that's awesome. Hey listener a quick favor. We are conducting an audience survey and we'd be really

grateful if you could take just a few minutes to respond. Please visit survey dot PRX.org

slash design matters to take the survey today.

That's survey dot PRX dot org

slash design matters.

Thanks.

Thomas Page McBey's first book was his memoir, Man Alive, which is his very personal answer

to the question, what makes a man? The second book, a researched memoir

called Amateur, is also about masculinity. It is about learning how to box and what

boxing tells us about masculinity's connection to violence.

McBee comes at the topic from the perspective of a transgender man, the first trans man

to ever box in Madison Square Garden.

...