Ted Audio Collective and also I wasn't alone. I mean this was literally everyone I knew at that time had like a bag that was particularly good for shoplifting because it like had structure to it, you know.

From the Ted family of podcasts this is Design Matters with Debbie Milman.

For 15 years Debbie Milman has been talking with designers and other creative people about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about and working on.

On this episode Miranda July talks about her latest film, about her life, and about shoplifting.

In what way were we suffering so badly that we needed to steal so much from Kinkos, but we did.

Hey listener, a quick favor, we are conducting an audience survey and we'd be really grateful if you could take just a few minutes to respond.

Please visit survey.prx.org slash Design Matters to take the survey today. That's survey.prx.org slash Design Matters. Thanks.

It hardly matters what medium she's working in, it could be film, it could be fiction, it could be digital media, or performance art.

Whatever it is you always know it's work by Miranda July. Her singular combination of strangeness, humor, awkwardness, curiosity, great feeling, and beauty come shining through in everything she touches.

Her latest projects are the movie Cajillionaire and a monograph of her life's work thus far.

She joins me today from her home in Los Angeles to talk about both her life and her career.

Miranda July welcome to Design Matters. Hello.

The first thing I want to ask you about is your interest in the e-chang.

I understand you've been using the same e-chang since you were a teenager and have said that you can fool yourself, but not the e-chang.

Has it helped you navigate your life?

Well, I don't want to overstate it. I mean, yes, I've had the same one that my friend, Jonah Peretti in high school, gave me trivia facts.

He went on to start Buzzfeed.

Oh wow.

So I guess they came to help him and the Huffington Post.

I usually only use it in times of great duress, which those times are semi-regular, so that would cut across my whole life.

But yeah, it's not like a daily ritual unless I'm really suffering.

Yeah, it kind of just like the thing you want to do really badly that's self-destructive.

...