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A new season of design matters begins in a few weeks. In the meantime, we're playing some

interviews from several years back.

This one, with the great Massimo Vignali, was recorded in 2010. Vignali died in 2014.

This is Design Matters with Debbie Millman from Design Observer.com.

On this program, Debbie Millman from Design Observer.com. On this program, Debbie Millman talks with Massimo Vignale about his favorite typeface, his fight against vulgarity and meaningless design, and what he means by forceful design.

Design that is emotionally charged, that has intensity on whatever it does.

You know, it's not only harmony, but it's provocative at the same time.

Here's Debbie Millman.

Massimo Vigneli is one of the great design artisans of our time.

He has worked on everything from package design and signage to furniture, interior design, and subway maps.

He co-founded Vigneli associates with his wife, Leila, and clients have included American Airlines,

the New York subway, St. Peter's Church, and many others.

Vigneli has said, if you can design one thing, you can design everything.

...