From Cafe and the Vox Media Podcast Network, welcome to stay tuned.

I'm Preet Bharara.

Democrats have had a belly full, and we're not going to play by the old set of rules when these guys are playing by a very different set of rules.

We're going to play by the law.

We're not going to violate the law the way they do, but we're not going to be suckers.

That's Ambassador Susan Rice. She served as National Security Advisor to President Obama and as

U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, among other distinguished policy

positions. She joined me for a conversation about leadership, decision-making, and the state of

the rule of law in America. Drawing on her experience, serving under three presidents, we explored

how policy decisions are made inside the White House, who drives the agenda, why dissent matters,

and how leaders should handle

disagreement and bad news. We also talked about immigration reform and what a serious legislative

framework would require. And at the end of the episode, I'll share some of your comments about

what it's like being a career public servant in the federal government right now. That's coming up.

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