There are at least two things that journalists are allowed to be for and to defend.

One of them is the truth and one of them is the fundamental tenets of democracy.

This actually is the opportunity to decide will we, as things unravel, have a chance to build,

not rebuild, but build what we actually want. And there's only one way to do that. You don't do

that from the margins. You do that from the whole dog on thing caves in on itself, which is what

is happening. Hello, welcome to Wise is happening with me, your host Chris Hayes.

It's a very special edition of our podcast today, our first crossover episode with my TV show All

In, which airs at 8 PM weekdays on MSNBC. And you know us, we like to do new things,

try new things here with pod. So today, what we're going to do is we're going to share two

full conversations, portions of which aired on All In with two people who were kind of on the

forefront of what I think is arguably the most important story of the moment, which is American

democracy resting on a knife's edge. And you can only hear these full conversations here on

with pod. So without further ado, here's our hybrid crossover.

Of course, the year 2021 begins with the first ever

insurrection. The second time in American history, the way we had like sustained violence around

the transfer of power, the first being for its umpter, the second being January 6th, the

aftermath of that insurrection, the attempts by the Republican Party to put into place

means of stopping future peaceful cancers of power and democratic accountability. And the

on rocks towards a future and a present in which the Republican Party, one of the two major

parties has become essentially anti-democratic in a profound way. And so in this episode,

two people who have been really at the forefront of identifying, warning, and then fighting against

these tendencies. One of those people is Sheryl and Iple, who might be familiar to you if you're

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