Hi, everybody. We have a great show today. I'm really excited to talk to our guest.

Her name is Nancy McLean and she wrote a very important book called Democracy in

Chains, The Deep History of the Radical Rights Self Plan for America. You know,

the book came out in 2017. I thought it was scary then, but today it's more than

scary. Today it feels prescient because it takes us back to the beginning of this

theory, this economic theory, that property rights is absolute. Property rights

are sacrosanct and the realization or the belief on the part of many people,

including the Koch brothers, that basically absolute property rights are at odds

with democracy and that in order for property rights to be protected and

exalted, democracy itself must be kept in chains. Nancy McLean is an award-winning

scholar. She's the William H. Chase professor of history and public policy at Duke

University. Her research focuses on gender, race, labor history, and social movements in

the United States in the 20th century, particularly focused on the US South.

She's received more than a dozen prizes and awards. She's a seminal thinker.

And I think for those of us who are deeply curious, deeply concerned and realize that

the United States has become in very many ways disunited for those of us who

are looking for a deeper understanding. How did we get this way in order to

understand what it is that we need to do to repair? I don't think anybody is

more important to talk to than Nancy McLean. Welcome. Nancy McLean, thank you so

much for being here. It's just an honor to speak with you. Thank you. It's such a

pleasure to be with you. You know, I think many Americans realize that we are in

trouble that the United States has become disunited. I don't think that people

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