Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Trump’s First Term—and a Second?

Conversations with Bill Kristol

News, Society & Culture, Government, Politics

4.7 • 1.7K Ratings

🗓️ 18 April 2024

⏱️ 52 minutes

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Summary

What was it like serving in the Trump administration—and what might a second Trump term look like? To discuss these questions, we are joined by Mark Esper, Secretary of Defense from 2019-2020. In this Conversation, Esper considers Ukraine, China, and other foreign policy challenges facing the United States, and reflects on his experience leading the Department of Defense during the Trump administration. Esper discusses accomplishments of American foreign policy during those years, but also raises deep concern about Trump’s attempts to politicize the military and his placing unsuitable personnel at the center of key foreign policy decision-making. And he argues that these tendencies, which were kept partially under wraps in the first term, could prove to be more alarming in a second—especially considering Trump’s increasing priority of selecting personnel based on personal loyalty. In a time of what he calls “great power competition with Russia and China,” Esper argues it is vital to have a strong foreign policy team in place—and dangerous to have a bad one.

Transcript

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0:00.0	And the Hi there I'm Bill Crystal. Welcome back to conversations. I'm very pleased to be
0:19.2	joined today by Mark Esper, Secretary of Defense from 2019 to 2020, before that Secretary of the Army,
0:26.1	way before that, a West Point graduate, a combat veteran of the First Gulf War,
0:31.2	an infantry officer,
0:33.4	distinguished career, and this is when I got to,
0:35.2	we got to know each other, Mark,
0:37.2	in both the executive ranch,
0:38.9	you were on the senior positions on the hill,
0:41.2	private sector, and then you ended up as Secretary of the Army and Secretary. the
0:43.0	private sector and then you ended up as Secretary of the Army and Secretary of Defense
0:46.0	under President Trump and served honorably.
0:49.0	We can get back to that and there and you were relieved of your duties there right after the election, which for me was a huge alarm bell, honestly, I thought my God if president has moved in Mark Esper, nothing good is going to happen at the Defense Department for those final two months. But anyway, I know it's a story there too.
1:05.1	Yeah, I do, right?
1:07.1	I was in a like a simulation in the summer of 2020.
1:10.9	What could go wrong on a way after election day and I said I think I'll just
1:15.8	remove my secretary of defense I think I was removed Bill Barr just to have those two agencies
1:19.9	a little more into my direct control without the kinds of limits that you and Bill Barr would
1:25.8	the kinds of things you would not do that he might want to do and everyone said on the this was on
1:30.5	Zoom it was during the pandemic everyone said oh, oh, Bill, that's imaginative of you.
1:34.5	You know, of course, that will never happen.
1:36.0	But I mean, that was kind of clever of you to think of that, you know,
1:38.0	so there you can, anyway, Mark, thanks for joining me and thank you for your service,
	...

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