Hello and welcome to another ancient warfare magazine podcast.

We're between issues of the magazine this month.

So Murray suggested, as the new war movie Dunkirk has been released,

why not try and look at some similar examples in the ancient world of turning a defeat into a victory?

So joining me is Jasbo Otage, Murray Dam and Mark DeSantis.

But before we start, our next episode will be looking at the latest issue of the magazine,

Caesar versus Pompey.

So if you want to read up on the topic, you can pick up your copy at ancient dash warfare.com.

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or indeed anything in the Carawan Saraj store if you fancy having a look at medieval warfare magazine.

And for patrons this month, if you're a fan of Game of Thrones, we've been extra for you

where we're going to discuss the use of the corvus in a recent episode.

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So I thought, if you know, it's your suggestion, Mary, was to look at victory from defeat. If we look at Dunkirk,

some interesting things I've pulled out about Dunkirk itself, which I thought might be

interesting for themes when we're looking at the ancient world. Churchill admits early on

that it's a colossal military disaster, the whole root and coral of the British Army were

about to be perished or be captured. Then a few days later he seems to have changed his tune. He talks

that's talked about the miracle of deliverance. Papers pick up on this and they spin it, which is so

spun into this idea of victory rather than

defeat. He then goes on to point out that, you know, wars are not won by evacuations in a

...