This is exactly right.

Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over,

but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times.

It starts with a dream, a nature reserve and a spectacular new home.

But little by little, they lose it. They actually lose it.

They sort of like nuts.

Until one night, everything spins out of control.

Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Kate Winkler-Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the last 25 years writing about true crime.

And I'm Paul Holes, a retired cold case investigator who's worked some of America's

most complicated cases and solve them. Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most

compelling true crimes. And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring new insights

to old mysteries. Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime cases

through a 21st century lens. Some are solved and some are'm great, Paul. how are you today?

I'm great, Paul. How about you?

I am hanging in there. What's been going on?

Well, I saw this little newspaper article that said that the company you worked for had been able to uncover the DNA found on the ninth sheaf in the Idaho murders. And you were very good at keeping secrets

because I would have, I can't believe I didn't get that out of you. It didn't even occur to

me. What can you tell us? I know some of this is still top secret. Right. You know, I'm very

limited in terms of what I can say about that case and

and Othrum's involvement. I will just say that Othrum was involved. I'd host State Police

Crime Lab did the initial processing. And then of course, once they got a DNA sample from the

...