Hello and welcome to another edition of Whitehorse Inn.

I'm Mike Horton and I'm really excited to be able to have a conversation with a good friend

Dr David Van Drunen.

He's Robert B Strimple, professor of systematic theology and Christian Ethics at Westminster Seminary, California,

and a minister in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church also serves on the OPC's Committee on Christian Education.

He's written so many books, most recently,

politics after Christendom, political theology

in a fractured world, and also more academic work such as Aquinas among the Protestants.

His academic work has been published in Journal of Church and State, Journal of Law and

Religion, Journal of the Society of Christian Ethics,

and he's also received a number of awards,

academic awards, including being a fellow at the Center for Study of Law and

religion at Emory University. It's a pleasure Dave to have you on to talk about

this. I don't know anybody who is in a better position to talk about two kingdoms and natural law.

In fact, that's one of the books. I would recommend people take a look at it if they want to see from the horse's mouth as it were the position

we're talking about here a natural law in the two kingdoms is a fantastic place to

start David's pleasure have you Thank you. Good to be here.

You know, ever since the Apostle Paul told the Romans that the governing authorities were

God's servants to whom they should submit, Christians have struggled to understand their relationship

to an often antagonistic state. For more than 30 years, Whitehorsean and modern reformation have applied two kingdoms, theology, I might call it,

recovered during the time of the Protestant Reformation, trying to apply it to our modern cultural and political arena.

But for this series of programs,

...