Well done. You've sorted through the embarrassment of riches that is the modern podcast landscape

and found me Rob Briden on my podcast. In this series of Briden and I talk to among

others Harry Hill, Ben Elton, Charlotte Church, Steve Cougan and Dame Harriet Walter.

And that's just a few. We tend to chat for about 45 minutes to an hour never longer.

It's terrific conversation, reminiscent where appropriate and exchange of anecdotes.

So do join me Rob Briden wherever you get your podcasts.

New episodes of Briden and are available early and ad free on Amazon Music or by subscribing

to Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app.

The Panic is a new comedy podcast from Wondery that leans into our most absurd anxieties and

defuses them with humor and actual advice. Listen to Don't Panic on the Wondery app or

wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey and welcome to 10% happier. I'm Dan Harris. My guest today is a reporter for the New York

Times. He writes about social and environmental responsibility and other topics for the Sunday

business section. Before that he was a hard charging finance reporter. Both for the New York

Times and also for the financial times. At the FT he did a big exclusive jail house interview

with Bernie Madoff. His name is David Gellis. He's also a serious and long time meditator.

In fact he wrote a book called Mindful Work which just came out in paperback. I recommend

it. It's all about the ways in which the business community is embracing mindfulness.

And David to be fair is pretty critical of some of what he's seen. And I should also

say that David is a friend of mine. So David thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me.

So I want to talk about the book and a million other swirling controversies in the mindfulness

world. But first how and when did you start meditating?

...