David French Asks: What the Heck Is a Christian Nationalist? (CLASSIC)
Good Faith
Good Faith
5 • 1.8K Ratings
🗓️ 9 October 2025
⏱️ 62 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
How Thin Is the Line Between Patriotism and Nationalism?
Curtis Chang and David French take a hard look at the rise of Christian nationalism and its growing influence on American faith and politics. They unpack how this ideology blurs the line between patriotism and nationalism, reshaping evangelical identity and challenging both biblical and constitutional values. Drawing from history and theology—from January 6th to modern evangelical movements—they reveal how love of country can be redeemed from the distortions of fear and power. Listeners are invited to reflect on what true patriotism looks like for followers of Jesus in a divided America.
(02:30) - Understanding Christian Nationalism in America
(11:03) - Defining Christian Nationalism in America
(17:37) - The Emotional Identity of Lived Out Christian Nationalism
(26:17) - Challenging American Identity and History
(33:43) - America’s Story and a Universal “us”?
(36:30) - The Competing Stories of 1619 and 1776
(44:18) - C.S. Lewis on Patriotism and Nationalism
(48:56) - American Identity, Patriotism, and Protecting Others
(55:45) - Security About the Truth of America
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Mentioned In This Episode:
- Andrew Whitehead & Samuel Perry’s Taking America Back For God
- Thomas Kidd’s Christian Nationalism vs. Christian Patriotism (article)
- How Many Americans Are Christian Nationalists? (article & date)
- David French: What Is Christian Nationalism, Exactly? (2/25/24)
- The Role of The New Apostolic Reformation
- A Critique of the Seven Mountain Mandate
- Derek Bell’s Interest Convergence and the Permanence of Racism: A Reflection on Resistance
- Matt Yglesias’s Great Awakening
- C.S. Lewis on Love of Country and Love of God
- C.S. Lewis on Love of Country and Love of God
- C.S. Lewis on Patriotism
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Number one, rid yourself of this view that to be a patriot you have to view this country above all other countries. |
| 0:07.9 | Number two, rid yourself of this view that to be a patriot in the healthy sense of the word patriot, |
| 0:14.0 | that you have to overlook its faults or minimize its faults, especially since overlooking or minimize |
| 0:20.5 | its faults can actually be harmful |
| 0:22.5 | to your fellow countrymen because it leads you to fail to understand their experience, and it |
| 0:28.6 | leads you to fail to redress wrongs that they have suffered. Welcome to the Good Faith Podcast. I'm your host, Curtis Chang. |
| 0:51.2 | The Good Faith podcast is a production of Redeeming Babel, a 501C3 nonpartisan organization. |
| 0:58.3 | And the Good Faith podcast is we're friends who follow Jesus, help each other make sense of the world. |
| 1:04.5 | Today, we're revisiting an episode called What the Heck is aist, in order to gain perspective on America's |
| 1:12.3 | current and possibly future landscape. |
| 1:16.0 | Now, when David French and I first broke down Christian nationalism, our nation was still |
| 1:21.7 | reeling from the January 6th assault on the Capitol. |
| 1:25.4 | In my conversation with David, we wrestled with rising nationalist impulses |
| 1:29.7 | in evangelical circles, forces mixing faith and civic government in ways that are neither biblical |
| 1:35.8 | nor constitutional. That conversation has turned out to be predictive in ways that we even didn't |
| 1:43.8 | fully anticipate. |
| 1:45.7 | Back then, Christian nationalism seemed, well, a bit fringe, |
| 1:49.9 | associated with figures like Greg Locke or Michael Flynn |
| 1:53.4 | and movements like the Seven Mountain Dominion. |
| 1:56.7 | But today, that fringe is growing from the blending of Christianity and politics at Charlie |
| 2:03.8 | Hark's funeral to Christian nationalist pastors like Douglas Wilson and his church network |
| 2:09.4 | influencing political leaders such as Pete Hegzeth, even to calls to repeal the 19th Amendment |
... |
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