Welcome to Wheels Off, a show about the messy reality of the creative life. I'm Rhett Miller.

That's when it got wheels off. We started up and we ain't going to starve.

I like you. I could not. That's where they got wheels off. David Daly.

Dave Daly is a journalist.

He has covered the spectrum of journalism, starting in politics, moving into arts and books, a little bit of lifestyle.

He's written for The New Yorker, the Atlantic, Slate,

The Washington Post, New York Magazine. He notably was the editor at Salon for a number of years.

The last seven or eight years, he has been working on books. He had a book called Rat Eft.

I won't say the full title in the introduction,

because I guess I should take this moment to prepare everyone who's listening with kids

that during the interview he does say the full title.

And there's an F-bom in the title of that book.

His most recent book, which just now is

going into paperback, is a book called Unrigged, How Americans Are Battling Back to Save

Democracy. Dave Daly is a good dude. He's fighting the good fight. I will say this during the conversations I've had on wheels off. It's never gotten overtly political. I have obviously my own political feelings and they are pretty strong ones. I've spent my life being a peace activist and a hardcore

liberal for whatever it's worth. But I've let Wheels Off be something that exists kind of

outside of politics because I feel like it is so divisive right now. And I want these

conversations to be about creativity

and the creative life. During this conversation with Dave, who full disclosure is an old friend

that I've done stuff with on and off since he was at the Hartford Current 20 years ago,

it gets pretty political because that is his work now.

He goes into great detail about working with activists throughout America over the last

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