Well, happy Friday and welcome to a special episode of the Chuck Toddcast. So today my guest is,

frankly, when you think of great documentarians of our times, I think there's really two that stand out.

There's Ken Burns and his documentaries on American History,

and there's Alex Gibney, who has done some just groundbreaking work on society and culture.

And he is out with, frankly, two feature-length documentaries, almost episodic, but they're both two-hour documentaries on HBO,

on dark money. One is a very specific, it's sort of, it's very much on sort of how dark money,

this ability to take big money in politics,

launder it through an organization you've never heard of,

you know, Ohioans for love, for Americans that love America.

And, you know, thanks to Citizens United,

and you're going to hear a lot about this,

the ability to spend big money on politics, move big money, and do so more anonymously than ever has never

been easier. And I'll be honest. I'm somebody who's been a bit of a skeptic of attempts to try

to reform and get money out of the system. You know, I'm one of those, I sort of bow at the altar of Jeff Goldblum's character

in Jurassic Park when the old man is trying to tell you that he can keep, keep those dinosaurs

from breeding because he made them all female. And Goldblum is playing the mathematician,

the chaos theory guy, says, life finds a way. Well, I've always felt that about money

in politics, right? Money finds away. And in fact, some of the great reform efforts of our time

have actually created the disastrous situation that we're in today. McCain-Feingold.

McCain-Feingold has thought of as this great reform that attempted to take big money out of political parties and out of the

system. But what all McCain-Feingold ended up doing is moving the money out of the political

parties. At the time, one of the few places where there was accountability, where they had to

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