Welcome to the Fat Emperor podcast.

I'm your host, Ivor Commons.

One of the points we were discussing today,

which I maybe didn't emphasize enough,

is that when you go back and look for the association,

the value, the hazard ratio for cholesterol,

it is so low, it's utterly meaningless.

And yet, when I show that to cardiologists, it's like,

so you put insulin resistance and diabetes metabolic syndrome

high up and then way down is cholesterol.

So, but how can you focus on this one and ignore those?

And it's like you didn't answer the question.

They just, they just glass over, they don't see it.

It's frightening because the person who put me on the low-fat diet, I should say,

was Professor Lionel Opie, who's, we've had a great relationship with him.

And I only realized not, he can't change his mind.

He's been a cholesterol man all his life and he would never change. Although

he said, you know, some of what you say is correct, he could never admit that more than

a little bit was correct. But if your whole life has been prescribing statins for high cholesterol,

and that's all you've ever done. You know the interesting thing, I've been in cardiac rehabilitation,

I started the first cardiac rehabilitation clinic in South Africa in 1977 or so.

And what was interesting was that the cardiologists never referred these patients,

...