Welcome to Pushback. I'm Erin Mate. My guest is Stephen F. Cohen, Professor Emeritus of Russian

Studies at Princeton and NYU, author of many books, including his latest War with Russia,

from Putin and Ukraine to Trump and Russia Gate. Welcome, Professor Cohen. A lot to discuss on the

Russia front. President Trump

recently faced a storm of outrage back home when he called for readmitting Russia to the

G8, from which it was expelled in 2014 after the annexation of Crimea. But now Trump has found

an unlikely ally on this front in the French president, Emmanuel Macron.

I want to play for you comments he recently made about easing tensions with Russia.

I think we must build a new model for security and trust in Europe.

Because the European continent will never be stable and

safe if we don't pacify and clarify our relationship with Russia, it's not in the interest

of some of our allies. Let's be clear about this. Some will always push to impose more

sanctions. That's in their interest, even if they're our friends, but it's not in ours.

So that is French President Emmanuel Macron. Professor Cohen, your comments on the significance

of his remarks.

Well, Aaron, first of all, I am glad to be with you. People always say that when they go on a

broadcast or any kind of show, but I am glad to be with you,

partly because the kind of questions you raise and the subjects we discuss just are not

discussed or raised in the American mainstream media, and they're vitally important.

Macron and what he's doing is a case in point.

First of all, for a person of my age or for a person who knows history, it's as though

Macron is trying to play the role that Charles de Gaulle played in France decades ago.

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