Counterintelligence Today with Mirriam-Grace MacIntyre and Alan Kohler
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 3 March 2023
⏱️ 57 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week, Lawfare Publisher David Priess wore his hat as a Senior Fellow at George Mason University's Michael V. Hayden Center for Intelligence, Policy, and International Security to host a rare live conversation on counterintelligence with leading practitioners. His guests were Mirriam-Grace MacIntyre, Executive Director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center (NCSC), and Alan Kohler, Assistant Director of the Counterintelligence Division at the FBI.
They discussed the organization known as the NCSC, the role it plays across the U.S. Government and beyond, and how the FBI's long-running counterintelligence efforts play into it. They talked a lot about the People's Republic of China and its extensive intelligence efforts against the U.S., as well as about counterintelligence and science, outreach to the public on these issues, how Congress fits in, and more. The event was not brief, so we have edited it slightly for length without losing any significant substance.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising. |
| 0:04.0 | To access an ad-free version of the LawFair podcast, |
| 0:08.0 | become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash law fair. |
| 0:14.0 | That's patreon.com slash law fair. |
| 0:18.0 | Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, |
| 0:22.0 | rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:29.0 | When does foreign influence cross the line into malign foreign influence, |
| 0:39.0 | or into an area where the FBI needs to get involved in? |
| 0:43.0 | We have decided we are limiting our engagement in these foreign influence operations |
| 0:49.0 | to those that are subversive, undeclared, coercive, or criminal. |
| 0:53.0 | And if it hits one of those four pieces subversive, undeclared, coercive, or criminal, |
| 0:59.0 | the FBI will engage and will either engage investigatively, |
| 1:04.0 | many times will do defensive briefings to the entity that's being targeted. |
| 1:10.0 | And sometimes we even get their cooperation to work back against whatever Chinese |
| 1:14.0 | or Russian or Iranian entity is doing the influence. |
| 1:18.0 | I'm David Prius, publisher of LawFair, and this is the LawFair podcast. |
| 1:22.0 | March 3rd, 2023. |
| 1:25.0 | This week, I wore my hat as the senior fellow at the George Mason University's |
| 1:30.0 | Michael V. Hayden Center for Intelligence, Policy, and International Security |
| 1:35.0 | to host a rare live conversation on counterintelligence with leading practitioners. |
| 1:40.0 | My guests were Miriam Grace McIntyre, executive director of the National Counterintelligence |
| 1:45.0 | and Security Center, and Alan Kohler, assistant director of counterintelligence at the FBI. |
... |
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