BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Welcome to Late Night Women's Out with me, Emma Barnet.

This is the programme and podcast where we bring to you the thoughts, views and musings of an esteemed panel.

Free to roam and say whatever they please.

Today, around the table, let me introduce you then to our band of sisters.

We have Farras Store, editor-in-chief of Cosmopolitan magazine and author,

Rana Rahmpohrampur, BBC journalist and broadcaster specialising in Iran,

and Emma Gannon, podcaster and author.

Emma Gannon, let's come to you first.

The confidence conundrum, I'd like to hear a little bit about this

because I know you've got some feedback on Instagram about this the other day.

Yes. So I put on Instagram recently this quote, or just a sentence.

The more confident I get, the more unlikable I think I am.

And I think what's so ironic about this quest for confidence is we're fed

the thought that we all need to get more confident. That's the goal, isn't it? We need to be

confident women. We need to go out and get what we want. We need to achieve our goals. And then

what happens is when you finally get confident, people don't really like it. We say we like confident women,

but we actually find them irritating and we find them a threat. And what happened recently as well

is I was on a podcast and I was talking about careers and stuff. And I was listening to it back and I thought,

oh, I sound so confident and I was almost recoiling in, I was just judging myself and I was thinking,

you sound way too confident and that's how I treat other women. When they sound too confident,

I think I think like I thought about myself that it's unattractive or unlikable. So I just

...