So we are going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition.

And it has to be judicious because that's what we're all about.

It's Tuesday, January 6, 2026, and welcome back to Goodfellows, a Hoover Institution broadcast,

examining history, economics, and matters of geopolitical importance.

I'm Bill Whalen. I'm a Hoover-dissinguished policy fellow, and I'll be your moderator today.

Looking forward to a spirited conversation featuring three of my colleagues, whom we jokingly refer to as the Goodfellows.

I'm referring, of course, to the historian Sir Neil Ferguson, economist John Cochran,

and former presidential national security advisor, Lieutenant General A.R. McMaster.

Gentlemen, a belated happy new year, and here we are, only three weeks off, and once again,

the world is on fire here. Let's talk about two things that are going

right. Well, we're going to talk about Venezuela, obviously, and time permitting. We will talk a little

bit about Iran. If we don't get very deep into Iran, fear not. We have another show next week,

so perhaps we could pick up where we left off. So let's begin with Venezuela. And HR, I turn to you

because you have kind of unique perspective here.

When you were in the army, you served in Iraq after the toppling of Saddam Hussein, so you seem what it's like for a society to undergo this kind of change. But in 2017, there you were in the

White House advising Donald Trump about matters of geopolitical importance. I took the opportunity

in the time off HR to read your excellent book once

again, that war with ourselves, and I turned the Goodfellow's attention to page 204 and allow me to read

this passage to you. Look at Neil smiling. He loves it when we talk about our books here. Quote,

and here's what you're referring to then Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, HR. Quote,

before we left the room, Tillerson said, Mr. President, please don't say anything about military options for Venezuela. As we walk past a swimming pool on the way to the press pool, I said, Rex, you know that he is a contrarian, and now the first thing he is going to say up of Venezuela is that we are considering military options. Sure enough, when a reporter asked Trump about Venezuela, he said

Venezuela is not very far away, and the people are suffering and they're dying. We have many

...