Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff Leadership Podcast. A podcast all about leadership, change and personal growth.

The goal, to help you lead like never before.

In your church or in your business.

And now your host, Carrie Newhoff.

Well, hey everybody and welcome to episode 30 of the podcast.

My name's Carrie Newhoff and I really hope our time together today helps you lead like never before.

And here's what we're going to do. This is like super ambitious, but Carl Vaders and I are going to settle the eternal question,

which is better? Big churches or small churches?

And I've met Carl a couple of years ago, I guess.

We both write blogs blogs he writes new small

church.com many of you will be familiar with that and I write just at my name

carry newhoff dot com and I often talk about larger churches he is dedicated to talking about smaller churches.

And we got into a discussion online.

It was super healthy actually.

But some of the people who have left comments on his blog and my blog take positions about that.

So I thought, hey, wouldn't it be amazing just to have Carl on the podcast

and we would just talk about it?

And I think you'll agree this is a fascinating conversation.

I hope a helpful conversation and in some ways a

healing conversation for a lot of us in the church because you know debate and discussion can sometimes get pretty

polarized so it was a lot of fun sitting down with

Carl and even though we're separated by oh a long distance he's in Southern

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