Classic: Steven Pinker: 'Belief in God Is a Hindrance to Progress' vs Nick Spencer

Unbelievable?

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Christianity, Religion & Spirituality

4.6 • 2.3K Ratings

🗓️ 19 August 2025

⏱️ 44 minutes

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Summary

Humanism vs Christianity: Who Really Shaped the Modern World? In this gripping episode of The Big Conversation for Unbelievable? Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker and bestselling author debates Christian thinker Nick Spencer on whether the Enlightenment values of science, reason, and humanism have made religious belief redundant. Pinker defends the legacy of secular progress, arguing that human flourishing owes more to data and rationalism than divine revelation. Spencer acknowledges the progress but challenges Pinker’s foundations—arguing that modern values like equality and human dignity have deep Christian roots. From the abolition of slavery to the origins of science, this is a searching conversation about what truly underpins human progress. • Subscribe to the Unbelievable? podcast: https://pod.link/267142101 • More shows, free eBook & newsletter: https://premierunbelievable.com • For live events: http://www.unbelievable.live • For online learning: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/training • Support us in the USA: http://www.premierinsight.org/unbelievableshow • Support us in the rest of the world: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/donate

Transcript

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0:00.0	Christian organisations across the UK are joining the two by two energy basket to plan ahead and manage energy with confidence.
0:09.0	It brings faith-based organisations together for great to find power and peace of mind.
0:14.0	Access the wholesale energy market, renewable power backed by Riegos and ethical procurement in one simple contract. Sign up now to
0:22.9	start in October. Search 2x2 energy basket. Two by two is regulated by the energy ombudsman.
0:35.1	Welcome to The Big Conversation here on Unbelievable,
0:39.4	the series of shows exploring faith, science, philosophy,
0:42.4	and what it means to be human in association with the Templeton Religion Trust.
0:46.7	Today, our conversation topic is The Future of Humanity,
0:50.6	have science, reason and humanism replaced faith.
0:54.6	The big conversation partners I'm sitting down with today are Stephen Pinker and Nick Spencer.
0:59.8	Stephen Pinker is a professor of psychology at Harvard University whose work spans sociology, evolution, language and philosophy.
1:07.3	His latest book, Enlightenment Now, the case for Reason, Science, Humanism and Progress,
1:12.1	makes the case that human progress has never been greater, and we need to guard against
1:16.1	unscientific ways of thinking, including religion, to see it continue.
1:20.5	Bill Gates has described Enlightenment Now as his new favourite book of all time.
1:25.5	Nick Spencer is research director at Theos and the author of books
1:28.7	such as The Evolution of the West, how Christianity has shaped our values. He believes that while
1:33.9	the story of progress may be true, modern thinkers often fail to realize how indebted Western
1:39.3	values of equality, democracy and science are to Christianity.
1:47.5	Stephen and Nick, thank you very much for joining me on the programme today.
1:53.8	Stephen, Enlightenment now, you use a huge wealth of data to show that the world is in a better place, essentially, than it ever has been. Yet looking at our news feeds, you'd be forgiven
1:58.6	for thinking that we're in a worse place. Why do you think
	...

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