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Discover the Hyundai Tucson self-charging hybrid. Ins 31st of March, 25% deposit, finance subject to status. Hyundai UK is a credit broker, not a lender. Terms apply. This is Recode Media with Peter Kafka. That is me. I'm speaking in Vox Media headquarters in New York City, the former Goldman Sachs headquarters. Chuck Closeman is the first person I've told that to who actually went, What? So I'm glad he's here. Hi, Chuck. Good to be here. Thanks for coming in person. Yeah, you know, it's so funny, you told me that the last one we did was over the phone, and I had forgotten that. I had forgotten it so much. I thought I knew what you looked like in my mind. Like, I had an image in my mind. I'll be like, well, I'll recognize him again. I've never met you. I looked like a generic media guy, right? That's an interesting self-description. But I did imagine you different in my mind. I think I thought that you looked like that guy. Is this name Derek Thompson? Yeah. That's who I thought you looked like. Oh, Derek's much better looking. And like really skinny. He's good. Some people say that they have a very specific conception of you. We're listening to this, which is always interesting. That's what happens to Terry Gross, so that means you're obviously succeeding.

Someone's listening.

Speaking of the last, it's great that you'd forgotten this last podcast, but I went back and looked at the transcript of our chat, and I realized that two years ago we were talking, it was just after Charlottesville, where Trump had said there are good people on both sides, and we talked about that.

And now here we are, and Trump has told four congressmen to go back to their own countries. And once again, it seems like, this is an astonishing thing, and he's crossed a line that could never have been crossed, and he's done it. And I remember when Charlottesville happened, I thought, well, this is another ephemeral thing, and it kind of was, but it kind of has stuck.

I don't know if you're following this one,

if you think this one is going to stop. When Charlottesville happened, I thought, well, this is another ephemeral thing, and it kind of was, but it kind of has stuck.

I don't know if you're following this one, if you think this one is going to stuck or stick, or this is just another.

Well, you know, this is an incredibly odd thing to say, but this is one situation where you have to hope that Trump is just dumb and racist. Because if it's conscious,

that means what they're doing is something incredibly savvy, which is trying to plant this idea in the collective consciousness that these four people are what the Democratic Party is now.

In the same way that the left is fairly effectively kind of created the situation where

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