China’s Perfect Police State in Xinjiang
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 24 August 2021
⏱️ 54 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Bryce Klehm spoke with Geoffrey Cain, an investigative journalist and the author of the new book, “The Perfect Police State: An Undercover Odyssey into China's Terrifying Surveillance Dystopia of the Future.” They had a wide-ranging discussion about the Chinese government's use of surveillance technology to suppress its Uyghur population, the history of Xinjiang since 9/11, the development of China's tech industry and much more.
Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair |
| 0:07.2 | podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair. |
| 0:14.7 | That's patreon.com slash LawFair. |
| 0:18.2 | Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair |
| 0:25.6 | no bull and the aftermath. |
| 0:33.9 | There's a riddle that everyone has in their minds and Xinjiang and the riddle is like, |
| 0:38.8 | where is the line? |
| 0:40.4 | What is acceptable? |
| 0:41.7 | What can I do? |
| 0:43.3 | And what can I not do if I go to the market today and I buy diapers for my kids is the |
| 0:51.1 | AI going to like me more because I am a good parent. |
| 0:55.8 | If I go to the gas station, I'm refilling my car. |
| 0:59.2 | If I do things in a different way, if I fill it up too fast and leave too quickly or the |
| 1:05.3 | guards find me suspicious, really AI, lower my trustworthiness just because I've done |
| 1:11.1 | something that it has detected that is unusual in some way. |
| 1:15.6 | And that's the riddle that no one is ever sure how to solve. |
| 1:19.8 | It's like anything you do at any time can be taken as a crime against the state and |
| 1:25.4 | you can be swept away by these sudden police cars that come in and take into a concentration |
| 1:30.6 | camp. |
| 1:31.6 | So that is the effect of when we're talking cameras and surveillance technologies and |
| 1:35.8 | human police officers watching the streets. |
| 1:39.1 | It's really a panopticon in which no one knows for sure where that line is and whether |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Lawfare Institute, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of The Lawfare Institute and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.