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Hello and welcome to The Spectator Podcast. I'm Lara Prendergast. This week, China agreed to consider a trade deal with Britain post-Brexit, but does a closer

relationship with China expose Britain to its expansionist ambitions? We also hear from two experts

on what exactly a no-deal Britain would look like. And last, we ask, why are Britain's great

Catholic schools facing extinction? From cheap clothes to easy investments, it's no secret that China's rise has helped the world become richer.

But at what cost?

That's the question that Asia expert Michael Oslin asks in this week's cover,

as Jeremy Hunt leads Britain into closer ties with China.

Michael argues that Chinese trade paves the way for Beijing

to strong-arm countries into China's fear of influence, supported by its rapidly growing military.

Michael joins me now to discuss, together with Kerry Brown, former British diplomat and professor

of China studies at King's College London. Michael,

you suggest in your piece that Britain should be wary of closer ties with China. Why is that?

Well, I think we're starting to get enough stories and evidence of the costs of getting closer to

China for countries that are eager to have trade relations or get aid from China.

You know, for the past 10, 15 years or so, there's really been no questioning about the

benefits, especially for developing countries, but other countries as well, of having

closer trade relations with China, whether it be lower consumer prices or

just access to what everyone believes is the world's largest consumer market.

But we're learning that there are actually hidden costs with that, not only issues that are

roiling America like the trade deficit, which every country faces, but something called debt trap diplomacy,

where China is using aid and debts to essentially have an outsized political influence on countries.

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