You're listening to a podcast from the BBC World Service. This is Hard Talk with me, Stephen Sacker.

Thanks for downloading this edition of the program. I do hope you enjoy it.

Welcome to Hard Talk on the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Saka. My guest today is a Nigerian judge who has spent decades working in the field of international justice.

Chile Ebu Ossagi worked as a prosecutor at the International Criminal Tribunals for Rwanda and Sierra Leone.

Since 2013, he's been a judge at the International Criminal Court in The Hague,

and two years ago, he was appointed

president of the court. The ICC has been with us for two decades. It was set up amid much

grand ambition to ensure that perpetrators of the worst of crimes, genocide, crimes against

humanity, war crimes, would never again be able to escape justice. But the court's

record has been patchy to say the least. Only three of its convictions remain standing, and many

countries refuse to accept its jurisdiction. Now there is an intensifying standoff with the United

States, which has seen President Trump impose sanctions on

the court's top officials, labeling it an extraordinary threat to the United States. So, is it time

to conclude that the ICC is not fit for purpose? Well, Judge Chile-Ebu Osseree joins me now from the Hague. Welcome to Hard Talk.

Thank you very much for having me. It's an honor to be here. Well, we're delighted to have you on at this

very sensitive time for the International Criminal Court. President Donald Trump has declared

your court an extraordinary threat to the United

States of America. You are locked in conflict with the world's most powerful nation. How damaging is that

for the court? We look at it in terms of, from the perspective of what this court was established to do. This court was established as a place

of last resort where victims of genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes. Victims of the

crime of aggression can go in the last resort to look for justice, access to justice for them,

when that access to justice has become unavailable

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