From the Center for European Reform, this is the CIA podcast.

Poson us seriously the question of the

future that we want, and we all

all together to the courage to it

for us in Germany is the

beckrentness to the European Europe

a part of our state's resolve.

A strong united Europe is a necessity for the world

because an integrated Europe remains vital to our

international order. This is the moment for Europe world because integrated Europe remains vital to our international order.

This is the moment for Europe to lead the way towards a new vitality.

Hello and welcome to the latest CER podcast. I'm Ian Bond, the CER's Foreign Policy Director.

And with me is Catherine Pye, the CER's Clara Marina O'Donnell Fellow for 2020 to

2021, who's just wrapped up what I think is a very successful six months with us by publishing

an excellent policy brief entitled The Sahel, Europe's Forever War.

And I'm going to discuss the report with her and with our special guest, Abdul Salam Bello,

who's the alternative executive director for the Sahel countries at the World Bank,

and a non-resident senior fellow with the Atlantic Council.

So welcome to both of you.

It's been a long time since the CER looked at this

part of Africa, perhaps too long. But despite the fact that Europe has devoted considerable human and

financial resources to the region, the situation there seems, if anything, to be getting worse. So Catherine,

...