Listener supported, WNYC Studios.

Brian Lairn on WNYC, David Graham, Atlantic Magazine, National Politics, staff writer is with us.

As we approach the 100th day of the Trump administration next Tuesday, David has a new book called The Project, how Project 2025 is reshaping America.

One thing David can boast, he read the whole thing, which not many people can say about the

900-page blueprint for this second Trump term that they hoped for that came out last year.

And spoiler alert, David broke out a piece of the book for an article in the Atlantic

that says the top goal of Project 2025 is still to come.

So let's see what that is and how much he thinks they're already reshaping America, as the book

subtitle says.

David, always good to have you.

Welcome back to WNYC.

Thank you for having me.

As you note, Project 2025 identifies four goals that their specific policies flow from. Would

you like to recite the list? Yeah. The first one is to restore the family as the heart of

American life. I'm paraphrasing a little bit here. The second one is to secure borders and

to, excuse me, to dismantle the deep state and return power to the people. The third one is to secure borders and to, excuse me, to dismantle the deep state and return power to the people.

The third one is to secure the borders and the bounty for America.

And the fourth one is to restore the blessings of liberty for all Americans.

And before we get to that number one goal that you said may come next for Trump and affect all American lives, what was it like reading project 2025 cover to cover?

Some of our listeners may be wondering, you write that it was both more radical and more interesting than you expected.

What was that experience like?

You know, I'd read bits and pieces during the campaign when I was looking for

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