Casey Luskin: How the ID Movement Has Flourished Since the Dover Trial

Intelligent Design the Future

Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture

Science, Life Sciences, Society & Culture, Philosophy, Astronomy

4.3 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 18 December 2025

⏱️ 43 minutes

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Summary

Was the modern intelligent design (ID) movement "over after Dover," as many ID critics hoped it would be? Quite the opposite. In the last two decades ID has flourished as a scientific research program and continues to gain momentum in both academia and the public square. On today's ID The Future, host Andrew McDiarmid concludes his conversation with geologist, legal scholar, and Dover trial expert Dr. Casey Luskin. In this segment, marking the 20th anniversary of the Kitzmiller vs. Dover trial of 2005, the pair examine the outcome of the Dover trial, in which a judge ruled that intelligent design was a religious viewpoint, not science, and therefore unconstitutional to teach in public schools. Luskin explains why the Dover ruling was highly flawed and unreliable and how it misrepresented the definition of science and the arguments of ID proponents. Luskin also reveals how the ID movement has flourished in the twenty years since Dover. This is Part 2 of a two-part conversation.

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0:00.0	Before we get to today's show, I'd like to mention that although ID the future is free content, it's not free to produce.
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0:28.4	Support the ID the Future podcast directly by going to IDtheFuture.com and clicking on the donate button at the top of the page.
0:36.1	That's IDthefuture.com and click on the donate button at the top of the page. That's IDthefuture.com and click on the donate button at the top of the page.
0:41.5	Thanks for your support.
0:43.2	If your goal is to basically dismiss ID and use the Judge Jones said it, I believe that
0:49.1	settles an approach to ID and dismiss ID without actually evaluating what ID theorists actually say, the Dover ruling was tailor made for you, all right? But if you actually want to consider what ID theorists are saying, you want to take ID seriously, you want to do good scholarship, where you let people speak for themselves, you want to actually look at the science, look at what the evidence says on multiple sides, and look at what the peer-reviewed evidence says.
1:11.5	The Dover ruling is not where you want to go. In fact, it's going to lead you in some very, very, very bad directions.
1:19.1	ID, The Future, a podcast about evolution and intelligent design.
1:26.0	Over after Dover. Maybe you've heard a critic of ID use that as an excuse not to take
1:31.5	the arguments of intelligent design seriously. Or maybe you've never even heard of the Dover trial.
1:38.7	Well, either way, today's episode will be illuminating. Welcome to ID the Future. I'm your host, Andrew McDermott.
1:45.6	Today, I conclude my conversation with Dr. Casey Luskin, Associate Director of Discovery
1:50.8	Institute's Center for Science and Culture. Casey holds a PhD in geology from the University
1:57.0	of Johannesburg. He's also one of the top legal experts on the issue we're going to be
2:01.8	talking about today. He holds a law degree from the University of San Diego and has been a California
2:07.7	licensed attorney since 2005. In fact, since 2005, Casey might be the only attorney in the USA
2:15.4	whose primary and near exclusive area of practice has been
2:19.4	the teaching of origins in public schools. He has traveled all around the USA, advising teachers,
2:26.4	school board members, legislators on how to teach evolution and intelligent design. He has also worked
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