My guest today, Carol Hoeven, who wrote an incredible book that I've started to read.

You all know that watch and listen to her home. I don't read a ton of books, but

hell of a book called T, the story of testosterone, the hormone that dominates and divides us.

She is an evolutionary biologist at Harvard, has been for 20 plus years.

And as we have been discussing through this series, we're talking about a very tricky subject.

And I wanted to go to a place where I could get educated, and you all could get educated.

And spoiler alert, it is also a place that got messy. So, hope you enjoy it.

Carol, thanks for being here. Thank you so much for having me, Lance.

Well, you know, we're going to get into this issue that as I've come to learn,

and it's not always the view that's shared by many, but I view this as a complicated issue,

and this issue of trans and sport, and how we approach this. And of course, just following

your career and some of the stuff you've done interviews and podcasts, I thought I have to talk

to this lady. Because as far as I'm concerned, I think, because I'm not, and I tell people,

this all the time, like I just sort of, if you don't, and a lot of things I don't know,

so I just confer to the smart people, say, well, listen, let me just ask, let me ask the field,

let me ask the smartest people out there. But we'll get to all of that. It's all, obviously,

as we've seen just in the last couple of days, a highly polarizing issue, which is the reason I

wanted to talk about it. And I think you've been so brave to just not necessarily take this on,

but share what you know, share your experiences. Obviously, this book, which I've just started

to get into your book, T, the story of testosterone, the hormone that dominates and divides us.

I read like three chapters this morning, and I was, you know, well, you sent me the PDF,

so this morning you gave me the actual book, which was great. I think just to start,

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