Besides Brian Keating is a hypocrite and he would love to accept nothing more than a Nobel Prize if offered it.

The most common criticism that I get regarding my book or some of my speeches is that I didn't actually lose the

Nobel Prize. In other words you have to win something in order to be eligible to

win something or be in a final competition like the World Series in order to lose the World Series, lose the Nobel Prize.

And therefore you might have to have actually lost it in order to make a criticism of the institution itself and I always

point out yeah I guess that's right we can't really criticize the president of

United States unless we ran for president of the United States and and

effectively lost it.

But we're not talking politics.

We always avoid politics on the Into the Impossible podcast.

We are not a safe space.

We are a space for academic freedom and ideas and assaying claims from experiment, from science.

But I think all will agree that today's guest, Professor Carl Hagen, not Carl Sagan,

Carl Hagen of the University of Rochester,

has a legitimate claim that he indeed lost the Nobel Prize.

And I'm quoting from my book, Losing the Nobel Prize, the book of the same name, a section about him and my late great mentor Dr Jerry Gerelnick who is my professor of Advanced Quantum Mechanics and Group Theory at Brown University back in

the 90s when I was fortunate enough to be in Jerry's class.

Jerry and Carl, today's guest, worked very closely together.

And Jerry was one of the sweetest people I ever knew and one of my greatest influences.

As you can tell, when you read losing the Nobel Prize, available in every format possible.

And I want to read the chapter two sections that are relevant to the guest today,

which is Carl Hagen, that appear in my book.

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