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Hello, welcome to the editor's desk.

This is the podcast where we take a closer look at the essays and articles in the latest print issue of First Things magazine.

I'm Rusty Reno. I'm the editor of First Things Magazine. And I'm here with you today at the editor's desk.

I'd like to welcome Jaspreet Singh Bupari to the podcast. We're going to talk about his article Caravaggio and Us from the January 26 issue.

Welcome to the podcast, Jaspreet.

Thank you for having me, Rati.

It's always a pleasure to be here.

Caravaggio, in many ways, the exemplary modern painter, the bad boy,

the rule breaker, the rebel. Is that fair? In some ways. So it's very interesting that

Karavaggio didn't really have much of an audience between

about the mid-seption between the mid-17th century, so he dies in what, 1610, so between, say,

1630, 1640 and the 1920s, he essentially doesn't have much of an audience.

He, nobody really...

Ruskin mentions him and says some quite unpleasant things.

Otherwise, you know, it's...

But there's an essay by Roger Fry, the Bloomsbury art critic in 1922. It's called Secienismo, and it's about the vogue for the 17th century.

He says something really interesting in that. He says that the people who are attracted to Italian futurism and what was developing into fascism were also fascinated by Caravaggio.

...