I think about risk like a fingerprint, that when you take a risk, it leaves this indelible mark on the world that tells people who you are.

All of your risk choices together show who you are as a person, how you've evolved,

and who you've become, and even who you're becoming.

Really who you've chosen to be, huh?

Who you've chosen? Exactly. That's a risk in and of itself.

Michelle Walker is an international bestselling author whose work on risk has influenced

governments and large institutions.

I'm the author of four books, most recently, two on risk. The Grey Rhino, which came out in 2016,

and You Are What You Risk, which came out in 2021, which takes a much more personal and psychological

look at why some people see a big risk in front of them do something

and other ones don't do anything at all and get squashed.

Yeah, like I said earlier, you're our first real expert on any topic. So, you know, it's like

good to bring a little expertise to climbing gold every once in a while. Yeah, because normally

we just have a bunch of climbers like rambling about things and, you know,

they're all slightly hypoxic.

They've all spent too much time at altitude.

You know, you've got, you've got some real ideas here.

I think it's safe to say that this is the only time

we will have someone on this show

whose work has impacted international economic

policy. Michelle's 2016 book, The Grey Runner, tackled big system risk-taking. National debt,

climate change. The book ended up influencing China's financial policy in ways that we will not

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