Can President Trump Invoke the Insurrection Act Over the Objections of State Governors?

We the People

National Constitution Center

History, News Commentary, News

4.6 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 16 October 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

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Summary

In this episode, William Banks of Syracuse University College of Law and Laura Dickinson of the George Washington Law School join to discuss the history and meaning of the Insurrection Act, which authorizes the president to deploy the U.S. military for domestic law enforcement purposes. Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, moderates. Resources Illinois v. Trump (N.D. Illinois, 2025) United States v. Cruikshank (1875) Martin v. Mott (1827) William Banks and Stephen Dycus, Soldiers on the Home Front: The Domestic Role of the American Military (2016) William Banks, “Providing ‘Supplemental Security’ – The Insurrection Act and the Military Role in Responding to Domestic Crises,” Journal of National Security Law & Policy (12/15/2009) Laura Dickinson, “Protecting the U.S. National Security State from a Rogue President,” Harvard National Security Journal (1/9/2025) Laura Dickinson, “How the Insurrection Act (Properly Understood) Limits Domestic Deployments of the U.S. Military,” Lawfare (9/12/2024) In our new podcast, Pursuit: The Founders’ Guide to Happiness, Jeffrey Rosen explores the founders’ lives with the historians who know them best. Plus, filmmaker Ken Burns shares his daily practice of self-reflection. Listen to episodes of Pursuit on ⁠Apple Podcast⁠ and ⁠Spotify⁠. Stay Connected and Learn More Questions or comments about the show? Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr ⁠⁠⁠⁠ Explore the⁠⁠⁠ ⁠America at 250 Civic Toolkit⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up⁠⁠⁠⁠ to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate Follow, rate, and review wherever you listen Join us for an upcoming⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠live program⁠⁠⁠⁠ or watch recordings on⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support our important work: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Donate⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0	On October 12th, Vice President J.D. Vance said President Trump was looking at all his options when asked if the Trump administration was considering invoking the Insurrection Act.
0:13.2	Hello, friends. I'm Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center.
0:18.3	And welcome to We the People, a weekly show of constitutional debate.
0:22.0	The National Constitution Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit, chartered by Congress to increase
0:26.7	awareness and understanding of the Constitution among the American people.
0:30.9	This week we'll discuss the history and meaning of the Insurrection Act, which authorizes
0:35.2	the President to deploy U.S. military domestically for
0:38.8	law enforcement purposes. To help us explore this important topic, we have two of the leading
0:44.6	scholars on the Insurrection Act, national security law, and federal military power.
0:50.5	William Banks is a Syracuse University College of Law Board of Advisors Distinguished Professor
0:56.2	and Professor Emeritus of Public Administration and International Affairs in the Maxwell School.
1:02.1	He's written extensively on national security, emergency powers, and military relations,
1:07.9	and he is most recently the co-author of Soldiers on the Home Front, the domestic
1:12.7	role of the American military. Bill, it is wonderful to welcome you to We the People.
1:17.9	It's good to be with you, Jeff, and with Laura Dickinson, one of the most prominent scholars
1:23.1	in this field. What a team. What a team indeed. And thank you for introducing Laura Dickinson,
1:28.6	who is the Lyle T. Alverson Professor of Law at the George Washington University Law School,
1:34.1	where she focuses on national security, human rights, and the law of armed conflict.
1:39.0	She's the author of outsourcing war and peace, and she contributes regularly to the national security blog,
1:44.8	Just Security. Laura, it's wonderful to welcome you back to We the People.
1:49.5	It's great to be here. Thank you for having me. And of course, it's great to be here with Bill Banks,
1:55.3	who is not only a preeminent scholar in this field, but I would say perhaps the preeminent scholar on the
	...

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