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Capitalisn't

Can AI Even Be Regulated?, with Sendhil Mullainathan

Capitalisn't

University of Chicago Podcast Network

Stigler Center, Chicago Booth, Socialism, Antitrust, University Of Chicago Podcast Network, Growth, 087667, Policy, Monopoly, Professors, Distortion, Research, Competition, Capitalisnt, Inequality, Promarket, Politics, Policymaking, Special Interest, Economics, Efficiency, Regulations, Chicago, Business, Markets, University Of Chicago, Kate Waldock, Capitalism, Friction, Bethany Mclean, Government, Macroeconomics, News, Education, Waldock, Georgetown, Microeconomics, Luigi Zingales, Zingales, Finance, Ucpn

4.5 • 584 Ratings

🗓️ 13 February 2025

⏱️ 50 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week, Elon Musk—amidst his other duties of gutting United States federal government agencies as head of the “Department of Government Efficiency” (DOGE)—announced a hostile bid alongside a consortium of buyers to purchase control of OpenAI for $97.4 billion. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman vehemently replied that his company is not for sale. The artificial intelligence landscape is shifting rapidly. The week prior, American tech stocks plummeted in response to claims from Chinese company DeepSeek AI that its model had matched OpenAI’s performance at a fraction of the cost. Days before that, President Donald Trump announced that OpenAI, Oracle, and Softbank would partner on an infrastructure project to power AI in the U.S. with an initial $100 billion investment. Altman himself is trying to pull off a much-touted plan to convert the nonprofit OpenAI into a for-profit entity, a development at the heart of his spat with Musk, who co-founded the startup. Bethany and Luigi discuss the implications of this changing landscape by reflecting on a prior Capitalisn’t conversation with Luigi’s former colleague Sendhil Mullainathan (now at MIT), who forecasted over a year ago that there would be no barriers to entry in AI. Does DeepSeek’s success prove him right? How does the U.S. government’s swift move to ban DeepSeek from government devices reflect how we should weigh national interests at the risk of hindering innovation and competition? Musk has the ear of Trump and a history of animosity with Altman over the direction of OpenAI. Does Musk’s proposed hostile takeover signal that personal interests and relationships with American leadership will determine how AI develops in the U.S. from here on out? What does regulating AI in the collective interest look like, and can we escape a future where technology is consolidated in the hands of the wealthy few when billions of dollars in capital are required for its progress?

Transcript

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0:00.0

Even if Open AI behave perfectly, that's not going to stop anybody else from developing.

0:06.3

I think the distortion Open AI has had in this conversation is it made everyone think this is a monopolistic or oligopolistic market.

0:15.9

It is not at all. It's the free for all.

0:20.0

I'm Bethany McLean.

0:21.7

Did you ever have a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed's a good idea?

0:26.9

And I'm Luigi Zengalis.

0:28.3

We have socialism for the very rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

0:33.8

And this is Capital Isn't, a podcast about what is working in capitalism.

0:37.4

First of all, tell me, is there some society you know that doesn't run on And this is Capital Isn't, a podcast about what is working in capitalism.

0:37.7

First of all, tell me, is there some society you know that doesn't run on greed?

0:42.2

And most importantly, what isn't?

0:44.2

We ought to do better by the people that get left behind.

0:47.1

I don't think we shouldn't kill the capital system in the process.

0:50.8

So Luigi and I recorded a podcast with his colleague, Santal Mululey and Asson, after the Sam Altman Bruhaha.

0:57.6

Do you guys remember the Sam Altman Bruhaha?

0:59.9

The tech world has been thrown into a particular state of chaos and shock following the sudden job change imposed on the former chat GPT CEO, Sam Altman.

1:10.2

Yeah, that's right. The Open AI board fired Altman.

1:13.2

It seems like a really, really, really long time ago, not just in the world, but in the

1:17.5

world of AI. Now we have DeepSeek, but upending everything.

1:22.0

A new China-based artificial intelligence startup is shaking up an industry known for its rapid

1:27.4

innovation. It's called

1:28.8

DeepSeek, and its biggest advantage, analysts say, is that it can operate at a lower cost than

...

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