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You're listening to the Nocturnous Conversations.

I'm Emily Silverman.

In the last few years, mental health has become a big part of the public conversation.

What happens when the clinicians who are caring for others are struggling themselves?

Today's guest, Dr. Jesse Gold, is an associate professor of psychiatry and the chief wellness officer at the University of Tennessee.

She specializes in mental health care for health care workers, and in addition to her work

in outpatient psychiatry has become a trusted voice in the media on issues like burnout and mental health in the clinician workforce.

Jesse's new book, How Do You Feel, One Doctor's Search for Humanity and Medicine, takes a deep dive into these topics,

weaving in Jesse's personal story alongside the stories of four composite

patient characters and broader insights into the emotional toll that health care takes on clinicians.

In my conversation with Jessie, we discussed the difference between burnout, moral injury,

depression, and PTSD, how mental health stigma continues to affect health

care workers, the fear that clinicians feel when filling out their licensing paperwork,

not knowing if they'll be penalized for seeking care for mental health, and the great work

that's been done to reform that licensing process.

We also dive into Jessie's exploration of telemedicine and her new role reshaping wellness

at the University of Tennessee. But before we dive in, first take a listen to Jesse, reading from her book,

How Do You Feel? When I see Luke on my screen, I offhandedly ask, how are you? I regret it immediately. For one,

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