I think there's a lot of people like us who are tech fans out there and who remember

being Apple fanboys and fangirls and now just feeling like the magic is lost

and just wanting to recreate the magic.

People often say that building a hardware company is like building on hard mode.

Well, building a hardware company during a global pandemic,

with the unpredictability of supply chains and markets,

that's harder than hard.

And trying to penetrate the phone market in particular,

where there's only a few players who own almost all the market share, that's really freaking hard.

I mean, just take a look at your phone.

If you're living in the US, there's an 85% chance that your phone is from Apple or Samsung.

Well in today's episode we talked to Carl Pei.

He's the founder of Nothing, the company of course,

I'm not the first person to make that joke,

but he's done so much more than nothing.

He previously co-founded One Plus, and between Nothing and One Plus, Carl has twice managed

to do what so many others have failed. Enter one of the most

demanding markets. In just over two years nothing has sold over 1 million units and

built a team of over 400. And in today's episode, Carl chats with us about why

he's at it again, what it takes to successfully build hardware, and how he thinks about making

technology fun again.

And by the way, if you hear us talk about the glyph interface throughout this conversation,

...