Welcome to episode 40 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.This time, the presenters, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and journalist Jo Confino, are joined by a returning guest, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Linh (Brother Spirit) – who is also the composer of the podcast’s theme music. Together, they talk about how to stay centered in difficult and dark times by looking at a particular deep teaching within Buddhist philosophy: the two dimensions – the ultimate dimension and the historical dimension – and helping us to meaningfully integrate them into the present day.   They further explore how feelings of grief and joy don’t have to be in conflict with each other; challenges to touching the ultimate dimensions, and (finally) touching the ultimate peace and freedom; the terror of nothingness; true presence; letting go of the four notions (of self, man/human, living beings, and lifespan); cultivating good energies; how the ultimate transforms the historical – and more! Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/  With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resourcesBrother Phap Linh (Brother Spirit) https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh/ Enjoying the Ultimate Dimension: The Nirvana Chapter of the Dharmapadahttps://plumvillage.shop/products/study/books-for-monastic-practice/enjoying-the-ultimate-dimension/  Classes: ‘In the Ultimate Dimension, Every Dharma Is an Unconditioned Dharma’https://plumvillage.org/library/classes/class-2-in-the-ultimate-dimension-every-dharma-is-an-unconditioned-dharma/  Dharma Talks: ‘The Nature of No Birth and No Death’ (Neuroscience Retreat)https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-nature-of-no-birth-and-no-death-neuroscience-retreat-br-phap-dung-2019-06-20/     Dharma Talks: ‘Free from Notions: The Diamond Sutra’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/free-from-notions-the-diamond-sutra/ Dharma Talks: ‘The Diamond Sutra’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-diamond-sutra-sr-dang-nghiem-2020-2-27-deer-park-monastery/   Deep ecologyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_ecology  Mahāyānahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana  Dharma Talks: ‘Freeing Ourselves from Notions’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/freeing-ourselves-from-notions/  The Way Out Is In: ‘From Extraction to Regeneration: Healing Ourselves, Healing Society (Episode #16)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/from-extraction-to-regeneration-healing-ourselves-healing-society-episode-16/  Quotes “In the historical dimension, we understand that there is time: time is passing; we are in the present moment; the future hasn’t yet come; the past is already gone; and things are outside of each other. I’m sitting over here, you’re sitting over there, Phap Huu is over there; we are apparently separate. I’m separate from my father, from my mother, from the world. I am myself. There are things outside of me, you could say.  Thay once said that, in that world, the cow is outside of the ice cream. That’s the historical dimension. Things are made up of other things. Things are composed of parts; that’s what we learn in science. Everything is made up of atoms and molecules, and beyond the atomic to the subatomic, to the quarks, the gluons, all that other stuff. It seems to be made up of ever smaller things. And that can all be ultimately teased apart and separated and identified. That’s the historical.” “The ultimate is this sense in which – poets and artists and meditators all touch on this –