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Thank you. Michael Del Rosario at apologetics guy.com. There's a pine wall for sitting on a holladermy he seems to have the whole morning out right in front of him and everything he

sings from the branch that he's sitting on it seems to hust the leaves and the colors all around

now first he sings and then he goes and what it means it's hard to know.

Hey, cultivated listeners.

Today is an exciting day for me because I get to share this conversation that I had with Brian Cappellman.

Brian, along with his partner, David Levine, is the creator of the Showtime series Billions.

They wrote Ocean 13, Rounders.

Brian also wrote a movie called Solitary Man.

He's done stand-up comedy.

He's worked in the music industry.

And he's the host of my favorite podcast.

It's called The Moment, with Brian Coppelman.

Now, Brian's probably an odd guest

for a show about faith in work because he's an atheist. But while he and I see the world in very

different ways, we share some common values. In particular, I think Brian's wisdom about work,

especially as it relates to creative work, is deeply true and reveals a lot about what it means

to be an artist and to be human.

And so in the conversation on the show today, we're focusing on those shared things.

We don't get into any of the great debates about the things that separate us.

...