Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. Today I'm meeting someone who has been at the top of my dream list of guests since Happy Place began many years ago.

I am beyond excited to be chatting to Brenne Brown.

The thing to understand is that the opposite of perfectionism is healthy striving or striving for excellence. So for people who are successful at striving for excellence, perfectionism is not the path it's the greatest barrier.

So what perfectionism is is actually one of our most dangerous defense mechanisms against shame, judgment, belittledment, failure.

Brenne is a research professor at the University of Houston and has spent the last two decades studying courage, vulnerability, shame and empathy.

I'm sure you've probably read at least one of her five New York Times bestselling books and you'll definitely have struggled to be a person on the internet without coming across her phenomenal TEDx talk, The Power of Vulnerability.

It's had over 50 million views.

50 million! The Mindboggles. Prepare your mind to be blown further during this chat because we've got into some really interesting stuff about focusing on our interior world, rather than taking cues from the exterior world all the time and why perfectionism is actually an unhelpful defense mechanism.

I'm just going to also add, as a disclaimer, that for the first five minutes of this conversation, I am like well excited. I talk too much, I talk too quickly, I'm trying to get every thought I've ever had about Brenne Brown out into the open. That's just a warning.

And then you will feel that naturally about 50 minutes in, I just get into a little rhythm and I feel more at peace with myself and my life and I talk less and a bit more slowly. So, sorry about my excitement. I was well excited.

This episode is brought to you by Samsung Galaxy Buds 2 Pro. I've been out walking listening to lots of music recently. I've been listening to lots of the Beatles, a firm favourite always. Lots of Ludovico in Audi, because that just keeps me very calm and gives me really good headspace when I don't want to listen to lyrics or words, just hearing Ludovico.

Tinkle on the old Ivories is the dream. And if you're as obsessed with beautiful music and melodies as I am, you'll understand that I have to listen with earbuds that guarantee a gorgeously crisp listening experience.

I want unmistakable clarity and that's exactly what the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro provide. I obviously love listening to music, but I also have to have earbuds in a lot for work.

So, my hard working ears are incredibly grateful that these particular buds are created for absolute comfort. Oh, they just slot in those ears beautifully. They'll feel as snug at the end of a long haul flyer as they do at the start of a quick video call.

Oh, and they have active noise cancelling too. Something that you might appreciate if your house is as noisy as mine.

Treat your ears to audio as it was intended. Search Galaxy Buds 2 Pro.

Right, I cannot wait for you to hear this. This is the show.

Hey, Brenny Brown. Hi, Fern. How are you? I don't know how to express how I am because let me tell you this Brenny.

When I started doing this podcast near enough to four years ago, I wrote a dream list of guests and you were at the top.

So, Nat, who now what do I do though? I'll just give up. I'll stop after this.

Oh, please, you better not. I won't. I'm deeply thrilled. So, thank you so, so much for coming on. Are you well today? Are you happy?

You know, I am well and happy. And that's not every day right now. So, I will take it. I'm well and happy. Excited to be with you.

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