Hello, this is Jeremy Bowen, the International Editor of BBC News and I'm here because I want

to talk to you about an event I'm doing with Intelligent Squared on the 2nd of November in London

and I'm going to be talking about the more than 30 years that I've spent reporting on major

events in the Middle East with my great friend and colleague over many, many years just in web

and I'm sure we'll talk about a few other things as well, just in and I started at the BBC

on the same day in 1984. So if you'd like to join us either in person or online,

then visit IntelligentSquared.com to find out more.

Hello and welcome to this episode of Intelligent Squared. I'm Lee Producer, Catherine Hughes.

In today's episode, recorded on the 17th of April 2023, we explored brainwashing,

the process of pressuring someone into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic

and often forcible means. Daniel Pick, a psychoanalyst, historian and Professor Emeritus

of History at Birkbeck College, University of London, joined Sabadra Das,

broadcaster, academic and writer with a keen interest in the history of eugenics,

to delve into the murky history and psychology of brainwashing and to discuss Pick's latest book,

Brainwashed, a new history of thought control. To listen out free and to support our

mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations, head to IntelligentSquared.com slash

membership. Welcome to Intelligent Squared, Daniel. Thank you very much. I want to dive in almost

immediately into what sounds like a conspiracy theory about Edward Hunter from whom we get the term

brainwashing and that was written about by your colleague, Marcia Holmes, on your hidden

persuaders blog. Was this his own idea or was he put up to it by the CIA?

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory about Hunter, but it's true by way of context, which as

you're suggesting really, that he comes out of the world of wartime intelligence, he's involved

...