It's Unholy. I'm Jonathan Friedland in London.

And I'm Ine Levy in Tel Aviv. It's Tuesday, day 39 of the war. We're all still waiting for a decision one way or another, whether we are heading for escalation or negotiations.

But it is still the holiday of Pesach,

and before our regular episode on Thursday, we thought of a treat for our listeners.

Let's talk about books. Jonathan?

Now, it is a cliche that the Jews are the people of the book, and it's a cliche that I think

occasionally should be lived up to, but we have for a long time wanted to have proper conversations about books.

And so we're doing something a little bit unusual.

I'm going to speak to the author of one book and you're going to speak to the author of another.

And they're both very different books, but I think we'll be of great interest to unholy listeners.

So here is the first of those two books-centred conversations.

Daniel Taub is a diplomat, a lawyer, and also a dramatist and writer. In the first capacity,

as a diplomat, he was Israel's ambassador to the UK

between 2011 and 2015. As a lawyer, he's been an international lawyer, even a negotiator

for Israel in negotiations with the Palestinians and others. And he has also written for the stage.

He had a play that he co-wrote with Dan Patterson here in London

and also was the creator of a successful TV soap opera in Israel called In the Rabbis Court.

All of that background is tremendously relevant to his new book, Daniel Tal,

Beyond Dispute, Rediscovering the Jewish Art of Constructive Disagreement.

Daniel Tao, very good to have you on Unholy.

Every one of those words could be deconstructed or could be the subject of a whole Unholy episode in its own right.

But one of the central themes of the book that you really stress is the importance and power of

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