Well, welcome to a special conversation here on the Breakpoint Podcast, pleased to welcome

back a good friend and just one of the most interesting people that I know and a very very

interesting writer including the book we're going to talk about and that is Tim

Gagline vice president at Focus on the family stationed there in the heart of the nation's capital and has a long history of thinking and writing about the intersection of Christianity and government and politics and history.

Tim, your resume of topics is getting quite government and politics and history.

Tim, your resume of topics is getting quite diverse.

I don't know if you knew that, but it's hard to keep up with you, friend.

You're very kind to say it, and I'll tell you, if it's ever a John Stone Street the Colson Center and

Breakpoint that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the you know in good

Trinitarian fashion that's a winner. That's very very kind of your this is the mutual admiration society.

Look your new book has a great title.

It is a you know a topic that a handful of people have kind of written on, but I don't think in a way that's

quite this accessible.

And your book's called Stumbling Towpia, how the 1960s turn into a national nightmare and how we can

revive the American dream a lot of people I think who care about the country who

care about the place of faith and morality in the country, we kind of feel like we woke up and kind of think,

well what happened to the nation? What happened, you know, how do we get here? We know we're in some place where things seem

fragile, they seem up in the air, and you tell that story and you know, you're not the only one that's

pointed back to the 60s as being a key decade and

and I want to get to that in just a second but first the title stumbling toward

utopia obviously some folks are going to recognize there there's a reference there I think right to

slouching toward Gomora is that is tell me the time tell me the story behind the

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