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Music Hello, and welcome to a special edition of the David Fromm Show.

I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic.

Early this morning, January 3rd, U.S. Armed Forces apprehended the dictator of Venezuela,

Nicholas Maduro, and his wife, to stand trial on a series of indictments for drug trafficking and other charges.

It's an extraordinary moment, and rather than wait any longer, I thought it would be helpful

and useful to viewers and listeners if I invited a journalist who knows Venezuela and its opposition well

and Applebaum to share her thoughts with me about what this moment means and what's to come.

Delighted to join you.

Let's talk about our concerns and our worries and our hopes. The Maduro regime is

desperately unpopular in Venezuela. It staged a sham election in 2024, which it lost, even though it controlled

all of the apparatus of the election. There is a legitimate recognized by the United States

president of Venezuela. But Donald Trump seems to have something more militaristic and imperial in

mind, at least according to his press conference today. Possibly. The only thing that Trump has said is very vague. He said America is going to run

Venezuela. What that can mean, given that we don't have an embassy in Caracas right now, we don't

have U.S. troops in Caracas right now. It's not clear to me how we would run Venezuela. Maybe it means that we would

hand over to the existing regime, which is, of course, what the Venezuelan opposition has been

afraid of. Maybe it means that the opposition will be allowed to come back, but by what process

...