Bonus Edition: Jack Goldsmith on the Norm-Defying Presidency

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

Military, Intelligence, International Law, Constitutional Law, Rule Of Law, Politics, International Relations, News, Government, History, Diplomacy, Terrorism, National Security, Current Events, Law, Foreign Policy

4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 3 October 2017

⏱️ 45 minutes

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Summary

President Trump's conduct in office draws a sharp contrast between laws that formally restrict the presidency and the institutional norms that presidents have historically followed. For the October 2017 issue of The Atlantic, Jack Goldsmith addressed that distinction in his article Will Donald Trump Destroy the Presidency? To help answer that question, Benjamin Wittes interviewed Goldsmith last week on his latest article, discussing President Trump's errant behavior in office and its impact on future presidencies, the difference between violations of norms and violations of law, and the changing landscape of journalism under the Trump presidency.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
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0:14.0	That's patreon.com slash law fair.
0:18.0	Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings,
0:22.0	rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath.
0:29.0	The basic point though is that so many of his norm violations have not appeared to serve him well.
0:39.0	When predecessors break norms, future presidents tend to follow the new norms.
0:45.0	When those norms bring advantage, and I don't think any with the exception of his attacks on the media,
0:50.0	where he's crossed the line many times. With the exception of that, I don't think any of his norm breaches have brought him credit or helped his presidency.
0:58.0	And I give the example, I think future presidents are no more likely to attack their attorney general,
1:04.0	the way Trump has viciously attacked his than they are to repeat Trump's behavior if he were to show up in the Rose Garden in a bathrobe to give him press conference.
1:12.0	That would be a normal violation. No president in the future is going to have an interest in following that.
1:19.0	I'm Matthew Khan, and this is the LawFair podcast, October 3rd, 2017.
1:25.0	President Trump's conduct in office has drawn a stark contrast between the laws that formally restrict the executive branch,
1:31.0	and the norms through which presidents have voluntarily constrained themselves in the past.
1:36.0	For the October 2017 issue of the Atlantic, Jack Goldsmith wrote about how the current president's disrespect for rule of law,
1:43.0	and disregard for norms of executive conduct, are testing the institutions of the presidency like no previous holder of the office.
1:51.0	Last week, Benjamin Wittis talked to Jack about his piece, including the distinction between violations of norms and violations of the law,
1:59.0	and how journalistic practice and credibility is changing under the Trump administration.
2:03.0	It's the LawFair podcast, episode 250, Jack Goldsmith on the norm-defying presidency.
2:11.0	Hey podcast listeners, Ben Wittis here with a brief explanation for why you are getting a podcast on Tuesday rather than Saturday.
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