Hi, and this is a special holiday bonus edition of Amicus, Slate's podcast about the courts and the law and the rule of law and justice.

I am Dahlia Lithwick, and I cover some of those things for Slate.

And here I am popping up over the Thanksgiving holidays to bring you a conversation I had with National Constitution

Center President Jeff Rosen at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia a little

bit earlier this month. It was about someone we're both very thankful for, and that is

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Jeff has just written a beautiful book,

Conversations with Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and it's an informal portrait of the justice that he

is painted by drawing on his many conversations with RBG over the years dating back to the 1990s.

This conversation first appeared on Jeff's podcast, We the People, but I wanted to share it

with Slade and our amicus listeners because it really is lovely.

And so, at the risk of being meta, here's a conversation about conversations with Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Enjoying.

All right. Well, thank you all for coming out. This is kind of a groupy thing,

wherein Jeff Rosen and Dahlia Lithwick get to see who's the bigger Ruth Bader Ginsburg groupie,

and you get to watch. But that's essentially, it's just a pleasure to be here helping Jeff spread word about this really,

really beautiful book.

And Jeff, I think I want to start at the very beginning and just ask you to describe

how you first got to know Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

So it was 1991, and I was a law clerk on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

And I was in an elevator. I think I was going up and into the elevator steps this austere, very formidable woman in workout clothes coming from a class called Jazzercise.

And Judge Ginsburg, who I hadn't met, had an ability to be incredibly intimidating,

even in her workout clothes. And she was completely silent in the elevator. Now, those who don't

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