Hey folks, Preet here. Joyce Vance and I are out with a new episode of The Insider Podcast,

and we're sharing an excerpt with listeners of Stay Tuned. This week, we're joined by our friend

Dahlia Lithwick. She's a senior editor at Slate and co-host of the Amicus podcast where she

discusses the Supreme Court. First, we talk about President Trump's firing of Attorney General

Pam Bondi. Then we turn to two of the major issues at the Supreme Court right First, we talk about President Trump's firing of Attorney General Pam Bondi. Then we turn to two of the

major issues at the Supreme Court right now, birthright citizenship, and conversion therapy. If you're a

cafe insider, you can hear the full conversation now in the insider feed. And if you're not yet a member,

we hope you'll join our community of reasonable people living in unreasonable times.

Insiders help support our work and get access to complete episodes and other subscriber benefits.

Head to cafe.com slash insider or stay tuned.substag.com.

Now, on to the show.

Let's talk about this case, Dahlia, because this is one that got a lot less public attention,

but that has an interesting split in the opinions.

This is the conversion therapy case, where a therapist objects to a newly passed law in Colorado that would prevent her from discussing what she thinks is a

legitimate option with her patients, and she objects on First Amendment grounds.

And this is, it's an interesting case in many ways outside of that context, because this is

another case about what standard should be used to evaluate a law.

Is it strict scrutiny? Is it rational relationship? The case ends up being shockingly 8-1.

Katanji Brown-Jackson ends up getting hung out to dry as the one. A little bit of a surprise there. There's a Kagan concurrence.

Where do you want to dig in on this one? I mean, this is a case where, and it comes in a long

string of cases, where in order to get certain results, you use speech, right, as the crowbar

into the case. And so people will remember

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