Hello and welcome to Ways to Change the World. I'm Christian Gary Murphy and this is the

podcast in which we talk to extraordinary people about the big ideas in their lives and

the events that have helped shape them. I guess this week has had a life very much shaped

by events. Bill Browder was a young American capitalist who went to Russia to make his

fortune and he did. But then he fell foul of Vladimir Putin and he has spent many many

years campaigning against corruption in Russia trying to get international governments to

pass laws to sanction corrupt individuals in Russia and he's been warning about the dangers

of Vladimir Putin for years, often going not really listen to until now of course, until

the war in Ukraine. And so his story has come back very much to the forefront at the same

time as his latest book and account of his campaign and how Russia has treated him

and sort of the strange cat-mouse life that he has lived as a result and it's called

freezing order. The true story of money laundering murder and surviving Vladimir Putin.

What's been driving me for the last 12 years is Sergei Magnitsky. He was a young man in

my service who worked for me and for me the burden of guilt of his death hangs over me

every day. Bill Browder, thank you very much for joining me. Let's begin really with basics

because many people will have heard very much about Magnitsky's laws around the world

but won't really know who Magnitsky was. So tell us first of all.

Sergei Magnitsky was my lawyer in Russia. He was working for me at the time that the things really

got ugly with Russian government. I was a fund manager in Russia. I set up an investment fund

called the Hermitage Fund. For many years it was successful. I then started to expose corruption,

the companies I was investing in. The Russian authorities expelled me from the country,

declared me a threat to national security, raided my offices, seized all of my documents,

...