Bible Scholar Challenges Lecrae on Nephilim, Demons, & Book of Enoch
The Deep End With Lecrae
Lecrae
4.8 • 602 Ratings
🗓️ 12 March 2026
⏱️ 64 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What if Genesis is way bigger than you were taught?
Not just Adam, Eve, and a talking snake — but fallen angels, half-human giants, divine councils, and a cosmic war that's still happening right now.
Dr. Joel Muddamalle (PhD, theologian, bestselling author of The Unseen Battle) sits down with Lecrae to break down what most Christians were never taught about Genesis 6, the Nephilim, the sons of God, the Book of Enoch, and why the ancient world understood the Bible in ways that would completely blow your modern mind.
This is Part 1. Part 2 gets into demons and their real-world impact.
In this episode:
- Why Genesis has 3 "falls", not just one
- Who the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 actually were
- The Nephilim: what they were, what happened to them, and whether remnants survived the flood
- The Divine Council worldview and the scholarship of Dr. Michael Heizer
- The Book of Enoch: what it is, why it matters, and why it's not in your Bible
- The Tower of Babel and where the gods of the nations came from
- Why the earliest church held views your pastor probably never mentioned
- The cosmic spiritual war behind the division you see in the world today
Dr. Joel Muddamalle is a PhD theologian, bestselling author, Director of Theology & Research at Proverbs 31 Ministries, co-host of Therapy & Theology, and a preaching team member at Transformation Church with Pastor Derwin Gray. His book The Unseen Battle is his doctoral dissertation turned into a resource for everyday believers.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Angelic beings slept with human women. |
| 0:02.0 | Yeah. And made giant. Now, a couple things I can already anticipate people are like, this dude is wild. I know where you're going. For everybody who doesn't know where he's going, Shack is a neth. That's what he's trying to say. The Bible, it's not interested in answering our science questions. How come Eve doesn't freak out when the serpent starts talking? |
| 0:26.4 | Hmm. The Book of Enoch. Not this is what things are going to get wild. So Jude and Second Peter actually quote the Book of Enoch. So why is it not canonized? This is a great question. It's |
| 0:33.0 | actually debated. Do you think they all were decimated in the flood or are they still with us? |
| 0:42.3 | Oh man. You really messed me up. You already told me your answer by that. That pause told me, I gotta go and tuck my kids in the night and tell them to be careful. There's Nethleum out here. |
| 0:46.3 | That's what you just said. The flood possibly was not a global flood. |
| 0:52.3 | Okay. |
| 0:53.3 | This is the deep end with La Conde. was not a global flood. Okay. |
| 0:58.6 | This is the deep end with La Cray. |
| 1:05.8 | All right, ladies and gentlemen, I got to read this bio. |
| 1:06.5 | Okay. |
| 1:14.4 | I'm getting more into reading bios because people are way more interesting than I think you even realize. |
| 1:15.0 | All right. |
| 1:26.8 | So first of all, Dr. Joel Muromali is a Ph.D., a theologian, a bestselling author, one of the most credible voices on spiritual warfare in the evangelical world right now. |
| 1:28.6 | And I can attest to this. |
| 1:36.5 | All right. An Indian American, born in Chicago, raised partly in India, father of four, is a hoops fanatic. |
| 1:43.6 | He's Jordan over LeBron. So don't tune him out. Okay. Now that you know this, stay with us. |
| 1:44.6 | Okay. Stay with us. |
| 1:52.2 | He's the kind of scholar who can go deep but also make it very accessible for everyday people. |
| 1:57.2 | He is the director of theology and research at Proverbs 31 Ministries. |
| 2:03.0 | He does serious scholarship inside the women's Bible study organization, which is very interesting. And he is a co-host on therapy and theology with Lisa Turkkist. I always get |
| 2:13.2 | her name wrong. But I greatly admire her. My mother read her book, Change the Life. |
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