Bible Scholar Challenges Lecrae on Generational Curses, Demons, & Deliverance
The Deep End With Lecrae
Lecrae
4.8 • 602 Ratings
🗓️ 9 April 2026
⏱️ 95 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Lecrae sits down with Michael Miller — co-host of Remnant Radio, church planter, and one of the most scripturally grounded voices in the deliverance space — to talk about what the Bible actually says about demons, healing, spiritual authority, and why the charismatic church keeps producing charlatans. No easy answers. No hype. Just a long, honest look at the stuff most pastors won't touch.
They get into: Michael's journey from a broken home with a Jewish mother and Mormon father to being discipled by Jack Deere. Why the cessationist argument doesn't hold up scripturally. What "demonization" actually means in Greek — and why "possession" is the wrong word. Whether Christians can have demons (spoiler: the early church didn't debate it). The Scottish border clan curse from 1525 that's still showing up in prayer sessions. How to tell a false prophet from a real one. Why prophecy is supposed to be local — and why the YouTube prophets keep getting it wrong. And Lecrae shares his own story: the name he kept praying over for weeks, the girl who couldn't walk, and what happened when he finally said it out loud.
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0:00 The First Demon He Ever Encountered
1:07 Introducing Michael Miller
4:42 A Jewish Mother, a Mormon Father, and a Hidden Bible
7:00 Why He Couldn't Handle the Pentecostal Packaging
8:25 Praying to Be Discipled by Jack Deere (And It Worked)
9:17 [Ad: Talkiatry]
11:30 Lecrae's Background: The Spooky Stuff Was Off Limits
13:56 Why Lecrae Started Digging Into the Supernatural
15:26 How Michael Got Grounded in Scripture on Spiritual Things
18:18 John Wimber Prayed for the Sick for Three Years With Nothing
20:03 The First Time Michael Actually Saw Something
23:10 The Night Before: He Was Frustrated With God
25:17 Who Believes in This and Who Doesn't
27:45 So When It Comes to Demons...
28:32 The Full Story: The Demon in South Africa
33:25 Why Did It Listen to You and Not Her?
38:07 Christian Authority Over Demons: It's Position, Not Gift
40:46 Can Christians Have Demons?
44:29 The Greek Word "Demonize" and Why It Changes Everything
46:56 What Tertullian Said (The Guy Who Invented the Word "Trinity")
49:25 The Scottish Border Clan Curse From 1525
54:09 What Makes a Curse Effective?
59:16 Why Michael Miller Is Not Afraid of Demons
1:01:48 The Woman in Austria: Endometriosis and What Happened Next
1:03:08 What Even Is a Demon? Nephilim, Fallen Angels, and Where Things Get Weird
1:07:44 Lecrae Breaks Down His Charismatic Journey
1:09:13 How Do You Tell a False Prophet From a Real One?
1:11:22 The YouTube Prophets Are Getting It Wrong
1:16:13 Can the Charismatic Church Self-Correct?
1:18:38 What Do You Do If You Know the Gifts Are Real But Keep Seeing Abuse?
1:20:39 Make Prophecy Local Again: The Story of Sally
1:23:36 Lecrae's Own Story: The Name He Kept Hearing
1:28:32 Specific Prayers, Legal Rights, and When You Have to Name the Thing
1:33:24 The Woman in Denmark Who Was Living in Sin (And Didn't Know It)
1:37:18 Can Regular Friends Pray for Your Deliverance?
1:38:27 Where to Find Michael Miller
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | When was the first time you encountered a demon? |
| 0:03.0 | I was in South Africa, and this man keeps asking me to pray for his wife. I'm a young 20-something at the time. I'm not even married, and I'm going, bro, I can't fix your marriage. And so I'm asking her, what do you need prayer for? She goes, oh, I don't know. And I'm like, I'm looking at the husband. And then she just turns to me and she says, I don't like this. |
| 0:23.0 | This is something else. like I'm looking at the husband and then she just turns to me and she says I don't like this |
| 0:23.2 | is something else her voice her mouth but something else speaking and she's gone says I play games |
| 0:29.8 | I said what games do you play I caused the nervous I caused divorce I was terrified and I remember just feeling feeling like my life was really in jeopardy. |
| 0:42.3 | And I looked at her and the demon, I guess, and I said, well, you're done doing that. |
| 0:47.3 | And I said, how did you get in? |
| 0:49.3 | He said, I was sent here. |
| 0:51.3 | And I said, who sent you? |
| 0:53.3 | I said, Rita. I'm looking at the husband. I I said, who sent you? He said, Rita. |
| 0:55.3 | I'm looking at the husband. |
| 0:56.4 | I'm going, who's Rita? |
| 0:58.7 | And he goes, that's my sister. |
| 1:03.3 | What? |
| 1:04.2 | What? |
| 1:05.1 | Man. |
| 1:07.4 | This is the deep end with La Cray. |
| 1:11.6 | I am extremely excited for today's episode for a multitude of different reasons. |
| 1:18.6 | So one is because if you know my kind of journey, it's been one where I have wrestled with the spiritual realm and had so many questions, but at the same time dealt with some torment and dealt with some spiritual oppression. |
| 1:36.6 | And I had more questions than answers. |
| 1:39.5 | And I was looking for some thoughtful people who held the Bible in high regard, but also could speak |
| 1:48.5 | to the supernatural and spiritual realm. And I came across this gentleman's work online and also |
... |
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