Five, four, three, two, two, one, one, one, one, one, One. Normal, the Telegraph Podcasts with Allison Pearson.

Hello?

And me, Liam Halligan.

Co-pilot Pearson and I are on our summer break,

but to help keep you sane, dear citizens of Planet Normal,

while we're away, we're bringing you some of our biggest interviews from our recent archive.

The discussions we've had on Planet Normal, the Rocket of Our Thinking,

The Flying Refuge of Reasoned Views.

Now in April I interviewed the author and campaigner Tony Sewell.

A return traveler on the Rocket of Right Thinking,

Dr Sewell chaired the committee which produced the highly influential 2021 reports of the Commission on

Rayth and Essnick disparities. He joins us again to discuss his new book Black Success.

As a Londoner proud of his Jamaican heritage,

Dr Sewall and his fellow commissioners,

almost all of them from ethnic minority backgrounds,

received a great deal of criticism for producing conclusions

which pushed back against the narrative that the UK is institutionally racist.

While determined to highlight and act against genuine racism, Tony Sewell believes strongly that many of the positive aspects of being black in modern Britain are lost and race relations of further damage, to an over-emphasis on stories of victimization.

Tony Sewell, welcome back to Planet Normal.

Great to have you returning to the program.

Great to be here.

You really shot to public prominence,

...